Nick Bianco of Spiritus Coffee

Nick Bianco is co-founder of Spiritus Coffee Co., a Chicago-area roaster. He joined Carl Kmiec, Jr. on Flipside Frolic for episode 12, recorded October 3, 2025. The episode was published October 5, 2025, and it runs about an hour and 54 minutes.

They talk about how Nick got into roasting, the coffee on the table that day, and the turn his life took before Spiritus. Spiritus is the first sponsor of the show. The code Flipside works at spirituscoffee.com.

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Transcript

This is the conversation, proofread from the automatic captions. Names, the show, and Spiritus Coffee are corrected. The way they talked is left as it was, including the repeats. A few words were bleeped in the caption file and are marked [censored].

Hey there. Thanks for joining us at Flipside Frolic, where we learn to understand each other's perspectives by flipping the script and having some fun. Here we go. All right. Welcome to Flipside Frolic. This is your host, Carl Kmiec. Here I have Nick Bianco, the co-founder of Spiritus Coffee and a friend. Uh not too long. We we we are we haven't been uh known each other for all that long. Um but here we go. We're going to talk a little bit about what Nick's been up to. Uh, first we we stopped by and we had a quick little crash course on a French press that I bought and uh he was nice enough to bring over some of his coffee for us to check out. And so we got kind of a mess on the table here. We got a couple of different options here for the Costa Rica blend. We have the how how do we say this one? Lilacia. It is actually Lilacia Park in Lombard.

And then we have some not to be confused with ether. That's the aether. But the aether is the the dark matter that uh that connects it connects it all. So we did a little uh we did a little experiment with uh some grams and some some hot water and a French press here. So that's what we're going to be sipping on today during the podcast. And with that, we are we are actually launching a partnership that that Nick is our Flipside Frolic official first sponsor. So, we're going to be doing some announcements with that. And uh if you want to go to the website, it'll be in the description. And if you put Flipside in the uh coupon code, you will get a nice little discount for your purchase through uh Flipside products. So, with that, we're going to hear a little bit first about uh Nick's background, where he came from, what what his life's like, and uh we'll start there. Awesome.

Well, Carl, thanks for having me on. This is uh first first time for me. Excited to uh to be here. And uh yeah, a little bit about me. Originally from Michigan, so grew up just south of Detroit. Uh they call it the Downriver area. um you know Detroit suburbs very um you know working-class, blue-collar I don't think I knew anyone in my family friends neighbors that uh had a college degree everyone worked to you know somewhere around the big three automotive and uh always had everyone had aspirations to you know get that union job and to uh be able to to to make a good living if they could you know get the 100 hours a week in that a lot of a lot of guys uh worked. So, uh grew up with just me and my mom. So, a little bit different is that not only was I an only child but didn't know my dad growing up.

So, um different kind of uh you know upbringing with her uh and and I and uh you know some of the things that uh that we all um you know go through good good and bad when we're we're kids. I know uh it's real it's real easy now and common for people to talk about uh different levels of um you know challenges that we had when we were younger as trauma which used to be a uh a real like uh gosh I I didn't have any trauma I had a wonderful upbringing I know what trauma looks like that's uh those folks over there that had real problems I didn't have real problems you know and then you come to find out you should have some compassion about yourself and the things that you go through. You know, it uh there was times that I didn't feel safe, times that I wasn't safe. Uh but all in all, I uh never really thought um uh there was any problem at all to be honest. Right.

Uh me growing up, I thought it was perfectly fine and uh liked um you know, most of uh yeah, most of that upbringing in in the Detroit suburbs. So that was my childhood. Well, that's pretty similar. I mean, some of some of the people might have heard some of my story and and and we I am kind of branching off where um you heard it here first, but I'm going to do uh Flipside Flip Outs to where it's going to just be me and a rant on what's kind of going on with local news or whatever else. Um, I'm going to start that off by doing almost like a full hour of my background or what I've been up to and and and and just in case any of the listeners want to know a little bit more about my story outside of what is talked about in conversations, but same kind of thing in somewhat inner city Chicago um northwest near northwest side like Cicero and Diversey area.

So, it was kind of um a little borderline on several different neighborhoods. And for some reason, again, like we we all thought that it's the trauma thing. Um so, we we're going to pour we're going to pour a little a little cup to give this a go. Yeah, this is uh made by a competing coffee company, so I'm going to say this is a faulty and bad uh design here. The uh the competition's got to get it together. I'm just kidding. There is a second there's like a second screen in there and so I'm not sure exactly if that's supposed to be in there. I'm not sure. It was a half click to come for the top to come off. Yeah. Well, we didn't practice this. I can try uh I can try a couple Well, I don't know. You want to take a look at it? All right. I think uh Oh, that's cool. I'm going to let you uh I'm kind of working around the microphone here. It's all good. So, yeah, you could just continue on.

I will say that I we we did watch the James Hoffmann French press video to get our technique down so far. However, I think uh our waiting that uh that 8 minutes I might not have waited the full eight. I don't know. Well, it there was no coffee above the screen. So, he did mention not to push it down all the way and compress it, but to push So, I did push it down. All right, let's All right, good. Let's try it. Let's try see what happens. Now, I know I know to trust James. And shout out to James. Oh, there's a there's a button, too. Oh, look at this. Now we're flowing. You know what? That sounds like a commercial. This is why I don't claim to be an expert. Just an enthusiast, Carl. Well, that's good. Just an enthusiast.

And uh well, the main reason we have people come over to Flipside Frolic and uh is because I love when people have passion for stuff and when people are excited about things. It's hot. It turned out It turned out good. It's a good brew. I'm loving it. Cool. This is our latest Costa Rica Microlot. So, um, awesome. So yeah, it's it's so funny because you and I um you know, we know each other from you know, a lot of mutual friends that we have based on uh you know, recovery circles and um having that story of uh you know, getting well and uh you know, living a little different life today and having those things in common, we get used to uh you know, the parts of our story that involve um a little TMI, you know.

I I'm real I'm real easy to cross over those lines and be like let's you want to talk about childhood let's get deep I'll talk about all of it here we go and uh you know but uh but the reality is uh things yeah things were good I grew up you know just and and I I know I also you know want to make sure you know I can talk about myself all day long it's uh something I know a lot about coffee as well um but I'll take a lot of time sharing sharing about myself if you're interested. I don't think I'm that exciting, but if you want to hear, you know what I mean? You know, I think it's about me or about coffee. It's about building relationships and everything and and and that's awesome and and obviously, you know, the the listeners are going to hear tidbits of me all the time and I'm going to be repeating myself here and there or whatever, but that's fine.

But, but it's really more about the guests and what the guest is into or whatever. Uh but I but again like you said with with different programs and and and recovery and and just being a little bit more spiritual based and a little bit more get out of the way and sometimes let the power of the universe guide you and do things and just coincidences start happening and then you fall into something else and then you read a book and then before you know it you're that mentions another book and three books later you're just like how did I even get here? I'm reading about metallurgy and you know just like so so that's that's the amazing thing if we just let life happen and try to not fix manage and control as some would say or play the director. Yeah. I can I can attest that that way don't work for me. Yeah.

And and and then also about being a little bit more actionoriented with just following dreams and aspirations or ideas or whatever and and just give it a shot if you feel that impulse even even on a on a spiritual or or or or whether it's even uh a collective consciousness or whatever this is that there's something going on where when you think of somebody and you're like, "Oh man, I should give that guy a call." you know, you you should act on that because there's for there's reasons for some of this magic that happens and you don't we don't realize it might just be a straightup conversation, but you don't then maybe later on you will hear or maybe you won't hear like, man, I really needed that call at that moment, you know, or you'll hear these different stories and stuff.

And so I try to act on that kind of stuff just because, you know, it's important and and and I believe that we have to try to tap into a little bit more of the humanity side of of human nature. And that's why I, you know, on the flip side, flip flip outs, I might maybe pull in a Zoom or or interview somebody from out of state or whatever. And when the podcast takes off more and I can afford to fly people in, even better. But sitting across the table from somebody having a conversation is just such a different world than what this social media uh answering with our thumbs and then typos and everybody thinks you're a [censored] cuz you can't spell things right and instead of just having a human relationship in a conversation with somebody, you know. So, so that's what we're about here. So, um Awesome. Yeah.

I mean what you know and and like you to just to touch on the trauma like you were saying makes us who we are and so I would not wish that on my worst enemy some of the experiences I've been through however that makes us who we are today so good bad or indifferent you know there's there's a lot of different stories in in in in society of even I mentioned Michael Jordan before how you know some sixth grade coach tells you you should just quit and what person would tell some kid that nowadays you can almost get locked up for saying something negative to somebody and if everybody doesn't get a trophy god forbid you know this that's trauma today although that inspired him or puts some sort of drive in him whether it's a f you I'll show you who knows and even in recovery and different things sometimes that even works like just go back out and do your thing because you're not ready and sometimes you know being honest with people is is is a good start to be like screw him.

I'll show him, you know, and if that's what keeps somebody coming around or keeps somebody, you know, on the on the on the path of of staying sober, then it wasn't a bad thing to say. So, who the hell are we to judge is at the end of the day, we don't know what works. I don't know what doesn't work. Um, but you know, just trying to be helpful and trying to be honest and and we definitely get, you know, you end up in some business atmosphere and you start telling some story about some running with the law or something. Everybody's looking at you like you're from another planet, whereas, you know, I guarantee we could one up each other all day long. Got crazy stories for sure. Um, but but that's the trauma that makes us who we are. So, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, everybody's got a different word for it or something different that they think about that.

Um I had very little understanding of any of that stuff until much later in life. And uh for but for the most part, you know, everything was pretty good. Growing up south of Detroit, that's the way um things were in the area I grew up in. And um you know uh always interested in music. So I um you know, that was a bigger part of my life than sports ever was. And um you know, next uh you for me was you know, the the school side of things. I'll say, you know, I think you and I have a lot in common as far as uh the way I explain it is that if I have an interest in something, I can't stop myself from pursuing it. And I I think that from some of the things I've heard about you and from you, uh I think you're you're probably as as close to a like-minded uh individual in that area than anybody else I may have ever talked to.

And that's how we got together talking is I think somebody we know said uh you know, if you uh like uh you know um what was it? If you if you if your kid if your if your son might like uh aquariums and uh you know that kind of thing, then you uh need to talk to Carl, you know, and uh I think the rest snowballed from there. Uh but uh uh to tie that together, what I was going to say is I'm totally ADD, right? So yeah, I'm I'm definitely uh got a lot of a and the way that it manifests itself, and I think that's kind of a buzzword and a you know, a word that everybody wants to, you know, throw around. Um I think I was kind of given that uh diagnosis when I was a kid having you know teachers refer me to some professionals. I was not treated for it ever um you know until uh you know maybe four or five years ago.

But the way it manifests itself is that you know impulsivity as well as if I have an interest I've got to go after it right. So, um, for me that meant school was not fun. You know, I and as soon as I had a, uh, driver's license, I was like, "Hey, let's use um, you know, this car to meet up at school and then get the hell out of here, right?" Like I I was not, uh, wasn't, you know, I didn't have an easy time sitting and paying attention in a classroom. And um it it it took my life in a direction of uh you know kind of pursuing whatever you know interest was uh was next and um that was uh you know the the the childhood and I'm not sure with you some of those similarities. I think you said you'd gone to you had gone to to college you uh you were in the service and um Yeah. Yeah. So, so, you know, I I I say it all the time.

Um, but I believe with everything in me that it would have been easier for me to get straight A's in high school than it would have been to get straight D's, which is what I got. For how much work I did to figure out exactly how little I had to do to get by was almost a skill in itself. And it took a lot of energy. It took a lot of time. You're manipulating teachers.

you're talking and working out a deal and you're hey if I can is there an extra credit assignment so why you just pull me up to that D you know and and so and and it was the same kind of ADD thing as well too that I and and we could talk you know with exercise and cancelling recess and and just you know I think that there there is a certain different type of you know whether it's the four personality types they talk about or whatever it is one of those is kind of us you know and and I can't really say that I'm a super creative, but that creative mindset is kind of that same kind of ADD scatter brain kind of thing. And then throw in a little bit of discipline and you can do some stuff. Yeah. But, you know, it's very easily getting sidetracked on stuff too is not a great thing.

So sometimes like I know you talked as a as a co-founder for Spiritus and and and the other co-founder is a little bit more on the analytical side and that usually makes a good partnership because somebody's got to run the books and crunch the numbers as I'm off here, you know, being spiritual and and and being artistically minded and and and driven to grow and and marketing and some of these other creative things that are are more the creative type. So that is very common with me and I try, you know, you try to tell your kids that and my kids are getting great great grades and everything else. It's just like that's not me, you know.

And at some point as they're getting older, it's like, you know, dad's gotten in some trouble in the past and, you know, there's I was doing some running around today just with little things and, you know, just to cuz I I just coincidentally things kind of fall in your lap and and and and then you're like, "Oh, I guess maybe I should explore this with just expungement or getting some 25 year old thing off your record even though it doesn't really matter anymore once you get 20 years, you know, 20 I'm 21 years sober, so uh I haven't had a speeding ticket in that time, coincidentally. It's amazing, you know. It's like you stop messing around with, you know, alcohol and somehow I managed to stay out of trouble for 20 years. I It's just maybe it's some sort of coincidence. But yeah, what what a bizarre coincidence, isn't it? So, yeah.

So, we're going to just keep doing that and trying to stay out of trouble, but with that nature, like you said, I could get I got into the aquarium industry. I was in I was uh breeding fish. I mean I so I had 800 gallons of salt water flowing through my basement at one time and doing rotifers and doing phytoplankton and growing my own food for the rotifers to feed the fish larvae and and it looked like a meth lab when you walked in and I was in sobriety but you know early on it was really a great way hobbies were a great way to just keep my brain distracted cuz sitting around thinking about thinking is not a good place for me to be y you know and and catastrophizing things and all this other stuff just go out do something go out, help somebody, get a hobby. I did a get a hobby.org.

I was doing some testing on a blog just to like say like, "I'll pair you up with a hobby for you because I'm in all these hobbies, you know." Yeah. Oh, you actually like bought that URL and you were trying to help people have uh this this issue that it's out there. I saw So, you got extra hobbies. You can get rid of a few and uh you know, they need they need one, you'll you'll take care of that. Yeah, more than enough to and interestingly enough even, you know, with with spirituality and with recovery and with people trying to help each other and all this sort of thing. Um, this altruistic service idea is something that was just foreign to me as growing up, you know, and why would you volunteer all this time and and why would you do things? I'm the one that needs the help. I'm the one in all the trouble. Why would I?

And and so you realize the more that you give back, it's like it's a karma thing or whatever it is, it just seems to work out better. And you go to Habitat for like one time I went to Habitat for Humanity out on Aurora area actually out out that way. Yeah. And I got an email and it's like if I can't think remember the last time I did something selfless, maybe I should act on this. It's kind of just the way my brain goes. I happen to be free this Saturday, so what the hell? So, I grab the tool belt, a couple of screw guns. I don't know what they're going to have me do or what's going to happen. And you show up there and of course there's the two people, two or three people that are courtmandated for service hours or something that have to be there.

But there's like six or seven other people that just showed up on a Saturday to help build houses for veterans or whatever the case may be here. and and you realize that maybe, you know, my relationships weren't very good because my picker was pretty bad. And when I'm sitting on a bar stool hanging around with the people that aren't as bad as me, you know, or or a little bit worse than me to make myself look better, you know, that wasn't the most optimal way to find a contented and happy relationship with other human beings. And here are these people willing to burn a full Saturday just to help somebody else. and they don't want anything in return, you know. So that al altruistic idea of service, I find that in clubs I find you go to a camera club, you go to a dog training club that they they just want to help you get your dog acting right. Yeah.

You know, and maybe they'll stand off a little more if you're coming back and you're really making super progress and and now you might be competing against them at some competition or something, you know, they might they might back off a little bit. But in the beginning, man, they just want you to take good pictures. They just want to share their information they have and it's not about money and advertising and and all this kind of stuff. You see that on the internet all day all the time you know where even this I promise I don't care some podcast and some other things like with you know 30 minutes of content and 18 minutes of commercials and they're holding you hostage for three minutes and they don't even let you skip it.

It's like it's like God, I understand how hard it is for advertisers right now to try to force you to watch an ad because you're not held hostage to a TV commercial anymore, right? But it's a challenge. But in the same token, it's like if there's people that we respect, if there's a podcast like the Joe Rogan Experience or whatever that we we trust and appreciate and get to build a relationship knowing that he's not going to have a sponsor that he doesn't agree with or product that he uses. He's not just out there trying to sell crap. So, I don't even need to see the commercial. I do have some AG1 upstairs. you know, I will buy products of or vitamins or different things that are recommended from somebody that I respect. I don't need to be held hostage for four minutes for an ad. You know what I mean? And and I think that that is probably the way of the future.

And here we'll offer, you know, uh discounts and we'll make relationships with companies and stuff, but it's I promise I'm not going to be uh more commercials and content. That's for sure. Because that drives me crazy. But yeah. Yeah. It's always tough when it uh you know obviously the conversation's broken and now you're watching the commercial and then it's uh you you're like okay all right but yeah if you appreciate it if it's something you enjoy you'll sit you'll sit with it and then sometimes you will buy it too. Yeah, I think um yeah, a couple of things that you touched on that I absolutely agree with. You know, one is, you know, the idea that everything in in you know, everything in the world's happening for a reason, right? Essentially, um you know, going back to growing up, I my eyes were not open to anything like that at all.

My eyes were also not open to um yeah, any any uh anything outside of my myself, right? you know, I mean, I my my my problem, you know, that uh uh could be summed up in the way that like, you know, Nick is just addicted to relief and what can I get more of and how do I make sure that I don't, you know, run out of just uh whatever it is, you know, and and even today it's like, you know, the the that the Girl Scout cookies, you know, or whatever it might be, right? Like how it's very natural for me to to have a constant thought of what do I need next? And that worked well when I was that only child, you know, and maybe I didn't know if and when the next thing I needed was going to happen. So, I always made very sure that I was going to be okay. Uh I think there's something natural in me that's just constantly making sure I'm going to be all right.

And that doesn't work real well when you're in relationships with other people, when you're trying to be a husband, trying and then when you're a dad, you know, and uh that's a a very tough situation to be in. uh where your natural first thought is, you know, hey, am I okay? Do I have everything that I need for the day? Am I going to be uh you know, I mean, geez, it's uh it's definitely a, you know, a game changer when uh you realize life is not all about you. It's not the Truman Show. You're not the center of the universe with uh with all of it u you know, circling around uh around around you and everyone else in the shadows.

So, you know, just to have an awareness of that is an awesome opportunity to uh have my eyes open to the fact that every every person, you know, uh there's a comedian that uh I I saw and um he talked about this and basically the uh the good thing that happens, the bad thing that happens, whatever it might be, the reaction is oh, you know, like or or is this is how God's showing up for me Okay. And when I say that, you know, I I really don't have uh, you know, a big uh religion in mind in particular outside of this awareness of um, uh, something greater than myself that's definitely um, you know, out out there in, uh, in in the universe that is endlessly, infinitely unfolding around us. Um, but I love the idea of, you know, whatever it is that you're saying to me is exactly what I'm supposed to be hearing.

Regardless of what I'm trying to say, you're going to hear exactly what you're supposed to. You know, whatever my wife yells at me for, you know, or gives me a a kiss on the cheek to thank me for is exactly what I'm supposed to be uh hearing. And and when I am keeping my eyes and uh ears open for an opportunity to say yes to something that might be inconvenient, but it could help somebody else or it might be something that they want, I end up doing a lot better when I'm saying uh yeah, sure. Absolutely. Yeah.

when uh you know because I know it's the right thing and uh so yeah I think I heard some of those things in uh what you shared earlier and can absolutely uh sorry agree hold on a second we got a little bit of a no problem man this it's it it did it the last time um for some reason after like 15 minutes this drive I don't know if it's cuz it's heating up or something or it's stopped recording. Oh, good. Let's see what time we got. Anyway, what's um the uh average times of your uh podcast? What's the shortest and what's the longest? I think the the shortest is probably in the two hour range and Oh, really? And then the longest is is is right about three, but maybe I had an hour and a half once, but we're we you know, we're not uh we do one. Okay, we're recording again. So, we're back, folks. Uh sorry about that.

We'll uh we'll throw some Spiritous Coffee images up in that little black so I didn't I don't lose audio because I back it up in a couple of different ways. We got a drum kit behind me here. Is that what I hit? Yeah, I got it. or Yeah, there's some music. This is a music household. So, I was gonna say wait till I tell a joke before you do the uh the the rim shot. Oh, look at that. Nice. Nice. You're already Oh, wow. We got it covered. Got that queued up. I just uh All right. This is a top top quality production here at Flip Sight Frolic, folks. I didn't know if you were going to get the legs in there. I got the got the shorts on today. Oh, me too. Lucky I got pants on, so Yep. Yep. It is a little little warm out there, but but yeah, we're uh we're back rolling. All our cameras are working. So cool. So yeah, I could talk to you a little bit about coffee. Yeah, we'll hop right in.

Uh I mean, it was it it all kind of ties into that's why it was it was such a good match. Um just with a little bit of the spiritual angle in the world and just how things kind of coincidences happen and you know things fall in our lap when we're seem to be doing the right thing as opposed to trying to do it our way and fighting this resistance. And you know we we talk a lot about the war of art and and and and this resistance that is this natural force that's just testing us and trying to get us to quit. Did you do you ever see that the war of art? No. thought you were uh I thought you mixed up your words and you were showing not the art of war.

Yeah, that's that's a a phenomenal book that kind of talks about um the resistance that we feel in creatives and about the muse or even about just tapping into something and looking um for guidance and then things just starting to happen, you know. And people can, you know, shun it all they want. Um, if if they're non-believers or whatever, but you're not going to tell me what I know worked for me. I mean, you you could not believe all you want. I don't really care. You know, I'm going to continue to do what seems to be working for me. And I and usually those people that are a little bit more based and a little and and maybe do a little meditation, maybe do a little prayer seem to be happier people. and the the ones that show up on a Saturday at Habitat for Humanity.

These are not miserable people like we can find a lot of miserable people sitting around bars on bar stools wondering why their life can't get any better. You know what I mean? So yeah, but when we start following those clues and start trusting in that idea, then Spiritus might be formed, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's a good uh Yeah, good segue. So So how how was Spiritus formed? Um uh give you the origin story and there's a couple of different you know sides to that story. Uh first you know it was um it was it was around CO and it was uh you know a time of uncertainty. Me and Jason were spending a lot of time together. Um you know going back to the the recovery side of of things.

Uh there was a time where folks were going into um you know treatment centers and finding that they weren't allowed to leave you know not to uh to go to the grocery store or any of the vital things that they needed uh to get well. And so uh him and I were we felt like we were early adopters. I still have this memory as if like you know a lot of that stuff went to Zoom but we were early like cuz I did it for my regular job and was like hey you know what we could get these guys hooked up on a you know Zoom meeting and uh start doing all the things that we like to do in in person to to help somebody uh who's looking to stop and can't do it on their own. And so we uh were out on my back deck and you know we're we're spend a lot of time out there and it everything revolved around coffee.

You know, if there's two things, you know, about folks that stop drinking, it's one is that they're trying to get well, you know, obviously, and two, there's a pot of coffee very close by, you know, it's in the center of all that we do. So Jason turns me on to, you know, great coffee probably prior to that, you know, that I was buying the cheapest, darkest stuff that I could buy the most volume for the less price, right? That was the the goal because I want I go through a lot, man. You know, that was me uh self- treating that ADD. you know, a lot of people take uh, you know, Aderall and I take caffeine, you know, so it was uh, it was my medicine and I couldn't live without it. Uh, but he taught me he showed me some great coffees. um and um you know introduced me to you know some of the ways that coffee can have different production methods.

Uh coffee producers that are out there doing things that are super unique like anorobic processing methods and you know honey processing methods and uh you know the the differences you get from different elevation and different soil and smaller farming communities. And it was like man this is amazing. I love this stuff. And I so of course I start digging in and exploring, you know, drinking different coffees. I think if if anyone wants to get started and just find a find an Ethiopian natural coffee if you've never had one. And it's so such a fruit bomb, so fruit forward that compared to any uh dark roast coffee or shot of espresso that you're getting or some of those big box stores coffees, which I'm not shaming. I'll drink all of it.

Uh, but you get something like that and and you have that experience of like, whoa, you know, I didn't know coffee could taste like this, I it really, you know, took me up to the next level of like, all right, what else is out there? Um, I ended up I don't know what it was that got me shopping for a roster, but I ended up um, looking on Facebook Marketplace. This is a common thing for me. Buy it used first and uh, get my money's worth and half the time get get to sell it for the same amount I paid for it. And uh that's that's good when you go through like 20 hobbies uh you know a year like we do. Um and uh I bought myself this fresh roast 500. It's almost like a popcorn popper that's made for coffee and it's an air roaster and I would buy a pound of coffee from a place called Sweet Maras.

They sell it by the pound and you could find, you know, coffee from a different growing region, different production method. And uh I would get that and try to see what I could do with it. And so what what could I roast out of this coffee? I I think that this is a good coffee. When I tried it from others, if I was to um you know, try my hand at this, what could I get? And it took a while to to dial it in. Definitely not easy to uh get started on my own watching YouTube videos and trying this uh this popcorn popper type roster. But, you know, eventually I was nailing it. I was really happy with what I was getting. Friends and family loved it. They were um you know, commenting that uh this is great.

And I um you know I'm the kind of guy that if uh you know I've I've got the idea that um something's going well you know the gears will start turning of like how can I uh yeah what what's next with this. So yeah friends family said I loved it. I'm a ready fire aim kind of guy. Another uh slogan of mine around that add is like I'm not gonna I'm not going to wait till I have something all figured out and I understand what uh you know commodity coffee pricing is and how it's going to be affected by uh global warming and what's going to happen with the uh you know the environmental factors of the rainforest. Like no dude I'm like I like coffee. I'm going to buy a URL buy a commercial toffee roaster and tell everybody I know we're in business you know. So that's that's pretty much what what we did. Um you know Jason and I best friends uh spent a lot of time together everything around coffee.

Uh he has a lot of experience in uh consumer package goods and you know able to teach a lot as far as that goes. So um you know it was it was a great partnership with him having that knowledge of uh how to sell into uh grocery and and that type of uh of thing. And then you know me and um you know I think I could have gone the route of you know working with with others but I am uh I want to be the artist too. You know what no matter what it is that side of me I want to learn everything that I can about it. I want to become the best that I can. I you know right away was thinking about who are the best you know coffee roasters. I remember at the time I was talking about you know locally here like dark matter. I want to be the dark matter of uh you know uh whatever we do. I don't I don't know. I I would I'd like to try the blind taste test now and see where I'm at, you know.

Well, that I mean that's that's a great you know some people say R&D is research and development and then other people say it's rip off and duplicate. Right. But but you know that's a negative spin on if you have a passion for something and you want to you want to open a hot dog stand, go work at Gan and Judes and learn how to you know run a business and selling hot dogs and you know so you imitate is the best form of compliment right as some say. And and so you know when we have a passion and we want to learn for things and and and and again you know the the one term what's the analysis paralysis right I can get stuck in that and it happened with this podcast. I had goals I had things set out with time frames on when things were going to get done and I'm worried about the sign in the background and the border around it and it's gloss paint.

It should be flat paint because it's reflecting too much, you know. So we get stuck in these like you know these these wormholes of overthinking stuff or overeducating oursel and and like you said it's perfectly fine that this podcast doesn't go off without a hitch if I have a little post-production issue I had to fix. So that delayed me for months just trying to work through Da Vinci Resolve and and trying to do video editing because I'm a oneman show here. you know, I don't have a team of five people doing post-production and and video editing and, you know, graphics and all these other kind of things, even though I have toyed around with a lot of different stuff. And it's amazing what's out there.

Um and but again you could in you just got to learn by doing and and that's the lesson to anybody out there you know just start whether it's a fitness regiment or a nutritional thing or a business idea or a hobby or whatever you know and that's the that's something that with that ADD I need to stay distracted I mean even three years ago I started playing piano which I never played before you know so it's like I have to just keep occupied with growth and and just learning and knowledge and becoming better and I I had a bass in uh jazz performance and I minored in college so I played saxophone but so but piano what song you working on now on piano you got anything that you're well I I've been uh simply piano shout out to simply piano app it's I'm it's probably pisses off a lot of piano instructors out there I I guess but it's really incredible technology where it's hearing what you're playing it knows you're playing the wrong notes.

There is simply guitar and simple voice. My kids have been play played around with that a little bit. It's $110 for a year. Y and it's like that's four lessons, you know, or or three lessons or whatever. And now I'm at the point where I have I think I have I finished all the jazz side, but then the classical side I think there's like two one or two more lessons and they're very difficult. Wow. Uh, and so sometimes you practice a little bit and and get frustrated because you can't get it. And then sometimes you put it to the side and then you just do your regular tunes that you play and and so I'll play for 15 or 20 minutes three times a week and just go through my 10 songs or whatever and then you go back to the lesson. You're like, what happened? Like that wasn't that hard.

So the way that the brain works that if you just put something aside and then come back somehow some synopsis is crossed or something and now it's just not as hard as it was, you know, or or so. So so that's been my experience with, you know, but it's a good story on self-limiting belief because I just believed that it was too hard. Yeah. You got bass cleft, you got treble cleft, you got chord changes, then you got melodies, and then you have a bass melody and a treble melody going on. Like, how is that even possible, you know? And it was like playing saxophone with one line of melody was hard enough or trying to figure out what changes and what notes to play in an improv solo or something like my brain was exploding just playing an instrument with one line. So, how could you possibly do all that and have one chord where you're pushing 11 keys down at the same time? Like, this is insane.

And so, but that self-lemoning belief like just prevented me from giving it a shot, you know? And now after going through these songs that are a little bit more challenging and with different chord structures and different ways you're breaking the chords up and and and and whatnot, it's amazing that it's like I don't even know if I'm looking at the music and and and I see an E chord, my hands just play it. I'm not thinking what note I'm pushing down. And if I stop to think about it, I could probably tell you through music theory what notes are being played in an E major chord or whatever. But I sure as hell ain't thinking about it when it's happening. So you're getting into more of a flow state with just reading that language and your hands just doing what it's supposed to do. And so it's crazy that it's not that hard, you know. And so my I guess what Carl was wrong. Can you imagine?

You know, like there's an old speaker from the east coast, Keith Keith L, that he's like right on the mirror. you're wrong because you know I the what I think is probably not reality most of the time. Absolutely. Yeah. I think uh the the world is uh such a bigger place and it has gotten to be uh beyond my wildest dreams compared to what I thought um you know I was in for. Right. I mean I'm uh Yeah. Yeah. It's that is uh this is super funny because I'm listening to you talk and I literally taught myself how to play piano three years ago. So, and I did remember now that you're saying it out loud that we we talked about this over lunch, you know, when we met uh a while ago. And um that is now my and I did I think I downloaded a free copy or well I downloaded either that one or I think Flow Key is the other one.

I don't know which one I tried, but if you buy the year, you can try it for seven days before you cancel. And I did that. I tried it for seven days and gave it a shot. And I've always been, you know, interested in playing music. And I've always been uh very difficult to uh to follow an instructor outside of myself and learn I've never learned how to read music. I'm not great. I never like to call myself a musician because I feel like that has a connotation that uh you know, you're you're you're trained and professional. you know, where I am, uh, I grew up in the Nirvana, you know, days and when, um, you know, I think every kid in Detroit played guitar and because of that and and it was easy to pick up a, you know, power chord and play.

So, I'm more of the sit by the campfire, you know, sing and play acoustic guitar kind of guy than I am a, you know, a Joe Satriani invest or uh, you know, or a jazz musician. Uh, so you know, with that I thought to myself, I wonder if I could learn those guitar chords on the piano and then open up my chord book and play and sing along with piano. That would be amazing. I would love that. And then the wife had bought a gotten a free piano, which means that I had to pay $300 for one guy to move it, $300 for another guy to tune it, and it's sitting there as a uh decorative table to put things on. Yeah, it's perfect for putting knickknacks on. Everybody needs one of these for that. All these ideas and my kids that you are going to become uh piano virtuosos. And finally, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to play this thing, you know?

So, I I sat down and and picked up a tune and I and then another and another and it was like, oh my gosh, this is uh amazing. Now, I think if I was to look at myself now from that guy that thought, I wonder if I could do this, I would be like, there's no way. You know, there's so many things in life that are like that, right? I mean, I think uh we've got an interesting story because we had kind of the before, you know, where we burned our lives to the ground to the point where we had to stop and didn't really have a choice, you know, and then uh you tried to start living a completely new life. So, I think for us, we're probably hyper aware of the fact that uh you know, there's so many miracles that like I can't believe this. Look at look at what what's going on here.

I mean I uh from my you know my career uh to the coffee business to the you know to learning how to play piano I'm always very grateful and astounded and I feel like um you know I think those of us that get get well and stop um you know drinking and doing drugs we know not not not to make it an ego thing and a pride thing of like can you see what I've accomplished but I kind of take that to the next level with just about everything and it's one it's a complica it's It's a hot take, you know, that I I I don't know if you know, most people can really get behind it, but I I'm kind of like that with everything. I'm kind of grateful for like absolutely everything. I don't I don't really like pat myself on the back for being able to pull myself up by the bootstraps and do what I've done.

I I think even that it's a gift for me to even have the ambition that I've been given like is the gift that not everybody has, you know. Um, I'm very lucky and blessed and grateful for, you know, that that ability to uh and and the circumstances to be able to sit and u make time to play a piano and not have to be working outside, you know, and you all all of those things, right? It's uh you know, I didn't um give myself those those those qualities. It's all like uh happening for me in a way that I'm uh I can't believe it. It's really interesting. I wonder who wrote this script that I am uh participating in. It's uh not something I would have ever been able to map out. And to me, I'm my mind is blown to be able to sit down and play a piano. And I'm not great, but I'm I'm I'm much better than I was three years ago when I sat down and tried.

And um you know that that's always a good I feel like that's the attitude that I should have. I feel good having that attitude of not It's a great It's 100% a great attitude. I mean, the the whole idea of having some appreciation and some gratitude for things as opposed to thinking the world owes me something, which is what drove me down a pretty bad hole. The same kind of thing. And and then just the simple truths that were presented to me when I was God, was I trying hard to do this life thing and nothing worked.

I joke because it's like if I made the opposite decision of what I thought was the right thing every time in my life, it would have turned out better because I had a gift of making bad decisions and I was honestly trying thinking I was trying hard and so why isn't this working for me and the because I thought I was in control or whatever the case may be and so you know but that you know the world owes me something or this idea that the only people that sceed see it in life get so do so by stepping on other people to get ahead. That's the only only rich people got that way by [censored] on other people. And it's just like it's not the truth. Now, are there some Wall Street hedge fund managers that would absolutely step on a baby to make another dollar? Sure, there's evil that's out there, but the balance is there. The yin-yang is there. The good and evil is exists.

And we have free will that may be given from this spiritual, you know, consciousness or whatever it is that we have to be able to have evil in order to choose good or to choose helpfulness or to choose gratitude as opposed to I don't have enough and the world owes me something. And so it's a beautiful thing. and and and and then the the other thing that really stepped out is just you know we we get a reset on life so to speak to start this life over and try again. And the truth is in the beginning you know 21 years ago I was basically an adolescent teenager at 34 that didn't know anything. I didn't know how to have a real relationship. I didn't know nothing. So, what's the worst thing that can happen if you kind of give this this idea a shot? I couldn't argue with that. You know, I was doing the best I thought I could at the time and it was a disaster. Mhm. So try this.

And so I tried that and I have an, you know, I have gratitude and I get on my knees in the morning and ask for help to be a good person and to do have a good day and and I get on my knees and and thank it think at night every night and and so it's we can read I I I had all the whatifs. I had all you know I drew the line in the sand and then crossed it. Drew the line in the sand and then crossed it. I would never do this. I would never, you know, drink in the morning or never drink on the weekdays and before you know it, you're on a pool league and then you're on a dart league and then before I'm not drinking every day. Well, you are drinking four days a week, you know. So, it was progressive and that's the normal story for for those that know that. Um, but so then you you you try to do the best you can and so but I I didn't have kids yet.

I mean, I was too busy doing what I wanted to do, but so I was late with having the young ones, but I'm reading books on early childhood development and you got babies and you're doing baby Einstein and you're doing all the best you can to try to provide them with what the tools they need to be successful or well-developed or whatever the case may be. And now that you're getting into the teenage years, I really don't know how much a lot of that matters. Now, love and attention, that's all we got to give. And and that's the most important thing. If we can do one-on-one attention with each individual kid, even not always as a group, that like I remember that meaning so much more to me that my dad say, "Hey, jump in the car. Let's go over by the machine shop or whatever." That was so exciting.

And there's a snap-on picture of a naked girl on the calendar and you're seeing things and hearing words that you're not supposed to hear. and like I remember those moments with my dad and you know and and that was powerful stuff so we could think about what we think is right but just like taking the next right action I'd much rather try to be an example so when my kid was when my youngest was or my oldest was 6 years old and we thought the ideas of martial arts would be good for balance and for per for fitness and for self-confidence and all the positive things that could come from martial arts, get the wrong teacher, you could get some negative stuff, too. But for the most part, there there's a lot of positives that could come from that. And then so I sign him up and then I'm like, "Okay, he's six.

So six years from now, he's a black belt and he's going to think he can kick the [censored] out of dad." Not happening. Sign me up. So, as a 35 or 37 year old man, here I am in a ghee in a white belt with with a bunch of 10 year olds trying to learn, you know, hikido or, you know, different forms of martial arts. So, so, but it was it was also about being an example, you know, that we're never done growing. We're never done learning, you know, to go back to school or to get a degree. I mean, I almost went back to law school.

I I was just like, you know, I'm like just because for fun almost just because, you know, I with work accidents and my history and stories and I could be a criminal attorney just by itself without, you know, so like can I just study the book and go take the bar and, you know, or do I have to go to a, you know, accredited law school and and and because with my personal injury and accident and different things there for how many times it was like, you know, but this isn't right. I'd say that to an attorney and they'd laugh at you and be like, "Welcome to Chicago." Right. Right. You know, so it's like anywhere. I almost wanted to be an attorney just to so I can do these lawsuits for fun because you can't secure some, you can't secure some $500 lawyer to do this thing, you know, for, you know, whatever. But so, so to close the loop on that, um, piano was the same kind of thing.

So there's that piano sitting there and I want the kids to play piano. I want them to have an interest in music, but they're going to watch me do 20 minutes three days a week. That's great. That's such that's such a Nick move, man. That's such an add thing to like you put the pin in the piano and you went all the way everything there is in the world and you and you connected it back, man, cuz you're you because you're keeping track of it. I do the same thing, man. It's That was like the Trump bob and weave. Remember when he's like, "You gotta weave. You gotta bob, but you always got to come back." Oh my gosh. Yeah, I do come I do come back. Um hopefully that's the only thing that I do in common. But uh I was going to say the uh yeah the piano and um kids uh I got really lucky.

My wife's, you know, super smart and she does all the research and um, you know, she she did all these, uh, you know, crunchy hippie mom things that I didn't understand that, uh, you know, she it seemed like she wanted to breastfeed them until they were, you know, out of the house and married and that they were supposed to be like co-sleeping, uh, you know, with us where we could have smothered them and they were going to do this and it was like every, you know, and we're going to take the, uh, they're going to take their, uh, you know, their shots, not all at once, but spread them out and it was like gosh everything that she came up with I'm like I have no idea what you're uh but I know that she's way smarter than I am and I'm going to listen and it's reasonable there's nothing that doesn't make sense about spreading that out it seems oh my gosh you know all the things that she came that she that she did though I'll tell you that our kids are uh incredibly like independent um able to be okay on their own you know they'll probably have a whole set of you know problems when they grow up that they'll blame us for, I'm sure, you know, but it won't be the same ones that I had, you know.

Um, it'll be different, right? And I think um, you know, I I uh I I know um, you know, I know enough to uh, uh, acquies to the smarter person in the room when there's, you know, somebody's got a little more information. I I've got opinions on everything. I'll talk about anything you want all day long. But luckily, you know, that one uh, she made some great choices. We've got great kids that are that are just doing amazing. It's not natural for me to uh you know find u you know I think it was I had a couple of men in my life that uh you know played the dad role growing up and taught me a couple of things that I'm really excited and uh and happy you know happy with.

Um, I got an amazing story where I actually just found, you know, my dad a few years ago and we were developing a relationship as a father and son who uh didn't meet until I was 40 and trying to figure out how to navigate that which is uh pretty pretty amazing. Was he active user back in the day or just what it was just it was just a it was a wild weekend the summer of 78. Oh, nice. And uh lost touch. Yeah. lost touch if uh you know and um he had no idea I existed and all of a sudden he got one of those phone calls that uh you know a lot of men wouldn't handle very well. And a lot of uh kids uh making that call will typically find hey thanks but no thanks. Yeah, I'm the guy, but you know, I got a family of my own or you know, I mean, I really hear a lot of stories about this happening and it doesn't typically go well.

And in my case, u little side tangent on this story, but um but yeah, in my in my case, um you know, I wanted to solve the detective work, the puzzle of like I wonder this guy's like half of me. I got a wife and kids now. She probably wants to know like what's in their genes. I should I wish I had answers. So do a ancestry and a 23 and me and you know keep watching those third cousins pop up and hope someday you know calls or messages. Cool. Ended up getting a call from a third cousin. They reached out and said hey I think uh we're related and I'm looking for my lost missing father and I wonder if you could help me. I'm like coincidentally I'm here for the exact same thing. Of course I'll help. What do you need? you know, and it turned out pretty quick that that was not the case, but it was the case that he was related to my father. And he's like, "Hey, I know all the men in my family.

I'll help you find your dad." That was the first like, "Whoa, is this happening right now?" And uh, you know, one thing led to another. I actually those ancestry tests are only like 40 bucks. So, I like sent him a couple extra and was like, "Well, have your uncle Ronnie do this one and then have him do that. You know, we're going to like narrow the gap here." And so, oh, you you bought the test for his family members to do. Yeah. And I had these old guys like, you know, hey, can you do this for me? And I'm filling it out online and like, oh, look at that. We went from third cousin to second. And I basically found, you know, doing the math. One, you know, this this one uh uncle of mine, one of his first cousins is going to be my dad. And so, he's only got three brothers or Yeah. Well, first I find out that there's a there's an uncle, Rick.

And Rick was a guitar player in a band that was fairly famous around the area, you know, and that's mom's mo, right? Is like the musicians and uh you know, I saw a lot of that growing up. She liked her. Yeah, she loved the rock star. She had stories about all of them. And uh she Yes, that was her her wild life. And um I'm like uh well that's the guy. And then I found out that that guy had died of meloma in like 94. I was like, well, at least I I figured out the mystery and that's too bad. and uh moving on. And then uh from there, no wonder you're so good at guitar. It was Eric Clap that Oh, yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I uh Yeah, that's definitely where I get the music from. And I didn't have that in my uh you know, in my mother's side of the family. So, um Yeah. And my kids love music as well. There's definitely a gene there and I can trace that now.

You know, that's super amazing things. Um, but yeah, I found a couple of of folks that uh I thought maybe it's one of these guys and I ended up having to write a a Facebook message of all things because I'm creeping them on social media trying to find these guys and I had to send this message that no one want to read which is like, "Hey, July 78, I think it was the Bella Vista Hotel in Case Caseville, Michigan. Any memory of uh meeting a gal being around that area? I don't want anything from you. I'm perfectly fine. Just looking for answers and uh hoping you can help. You know, I try to make it as like easy as possible to see this news and not have a heart attack.

You can't even believe that that message would be real, but there's enough information to be like, "Wow, that's a little creepy, but is this some sort of internet troll that's spamming because of something and everything's a scam in the world?" So, God, what a to respond to that message is magic in itself to even be honest if that's what transpired. And what happened was the very next day my phone rang and this guy tells me um I uh I think I might be your dad. Wow. And dude, it was uh you got to imagine I'm like 38 I think at the time and I'm 46 now. Uh so uh you know I'm a grown man, you know, and I I think I've had uh everything that I needed, you know, from a a male father figure growing up. We find we find them, you know.

I find I actually find them in every every man, you know, that I'll I'll make them that person from for me and get everything I need from from them and I'll take my lessons and I will listen and uh and I and I'll learn and um you know, and I I think uh to myself, you know, I I I would love to solve this mystery and now I am solving it. It is uh is unfolding before me. And then uh the real highlight to this that's definitely unique and different is that um he uh has a wonderful wife. I got a stepmom that is just the the most lovely woman I've ever met in my life. And uh and two kids that he raised as his own. They were hers and uh and and not not his biological kids, but he he never had kids and he always wanted kids. Wow. And he was very successful everywhere else in life except he was never able to have a kid of his own.

and uh and now here I am like hey and he's more excited to meet me than I am to meet him you know I mean it's a it's a it's it's a really amazing thing for both of us and now we're like building a relationship as a father and son and talking you know as often as we can once a week and he's coming to see my family I'm coming to see them out in in northern Idaho of all places and um you know this is uh this is magic you know absolute magic it's undisputed it's Yeah, the the the ability to just fill a small hole in somebody else's life is is like what bigger gift can we give, you know? I I mean, it's just it's just that's just such an awesome story, man. I I mean, yeah, everybody loves hearing that story, man. I love telling it because it's uh it is amazing and I'm so, you know, so grateful to have that uh you know um unfolding before me, you know. Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah. Yeah.

Really, really cool stuff. um you know so but but but I think yeah there we go we put the little uh you know little pin in in where we started and I think the idea was that I didn't really have it modeled well for me on how to be a dad and I love hearing your story about you know I signed up for the hop keto with Henry as well because we had one on the corner and we got our ghee and we did the first couple uh you know you know times together and uh he didn't seem extremely interested and I think the good dad thing to do would be like we got you know it's my um to continue to keep you doing this, you know. And uh uh I I I think uh there's a lot of things like that, but then there's there's also a lot of things that I just love the [censored] out of him, you know, no matter what it is that he's doing, not doing, uh appreciating everything he does. Same with my daughter.

Um you know, everything that she's that she's into, all the things that I wish she was, but she's not. I just I think there's so much from like you said, you love them and you support them and it doesn't matter if they're not little versions of you. They're their absolutely their own little little individuals and they're turning out to be their own individual person and it's uh you know before you have kids I think you think I'm going to have a little Nick, you know, and a little Amanda, you know, and that's my wife's name is, you know, and then and uh you know, that's who they're going to be. And sometimes you got parents that will, you know, I'm gonna get my kids the Misfits shirt and I'm gonna make them punk rock. You know what I mean? I'm always like, don't do that. You know, living vicarious through your kids is very common.

Um, and and it's, you know, it's fine that that's where like that's one of the most challenging things is because you made a commitment to the team, you don't like baseball now because you struck out and you were embarrassed. Probably not the best reason to quit. Yes. So, so that's a almost no-brainer that no, you're going to finish out the season. You made a commitment to the team. If you don't want to play next year, that's fine. Yeah. And then a lot of times they end up playing next year or whatever. So, so th those are those moments where how much do we push, how much do we guide? Yeah, but I think that that's where like I'm I'm avid and and and a lover of the scouting of America and and because I I really believe as a parent, our job is to provide opportunities for experiences and we give them these experiences and for some reason somewhere somehow something resonates. Yeah.

To where man they seem to be drawn to this more than it would be normal. And if we can fan that, now we're now we've done our job, whether it's something that we like or not. So, y So, he Cody did he went purple belt. I mean, he he went pretty far. I I was I ended up uh blue, I think. Nice. Um and then Sierra and Connor kind of lost interest kind, you know, but we we we may go back. Who knows, you know? But it's it's one of those things where that's like where do you where do you draw that pushing line and and and like again with the music I I I mean I know music changes our brains physiologically. It's just a beautiful thing. But then the other thing that really jumped out even with the genealogy thing Oh yeah. Yeah. We don't know anything. I we Okay, we know a lot but we sure don't have a fraction of a clue.

And like I I bring up sometimes the story of learned behavior being passed down genetically or whatnot. So is it genes? Is it genetic? Or do you kind of already know how to do that because both your parents were Olympic swimmers, right? You know, so so there's something there. There's science that backs that. So understanding where we came from in genetically. So I I I would hate for it to be considered some racist thing that somebody grew up by criminals in the hood are going might have a harder time because so much of that natural instinct might be crime or something. So you you would think that there would be an a a a coalition of of science that would say no, we can't prove this or we we can't say that because that would mean that and that's not great. But if it's the truth then and we have an awareness of that then maybe it would be beneficial to to to move past that.

Yeah, what I understand about it is, you know, in that situation, you know, is I think that uh you know, and I and I'm not an expert in anything, but uh at all. Like I said, I've got opinions on everything. I can tell you why I I feel a certain way. Um but uh and um but yeah, I think there's definitely a lot to be said about, you know, what opportunities are there to uh you know, do things in the community because there's resources available for you because there is money and funding in a community or, you know, is there education that's going to open up opportunities for someone in a community so that they can make a living doing things that aren't criminal, right? And there's, you know, a lot of stuff that leads to, you know, where uh those dollars are, where those opportunities are.

And it's, it goes back again to like, you know, am I responsible for the fact that I've been successful in my career, that I'm able to look myself in the mirror and be proud of who I am or be a good father and a good husband and a good employee, a good worker, a good boss. Um, a lot of these things is like uh something that was given to me was a lottery that I was kind of like really dealt a great hand and don't have a lot of understanding of other, you know, hands that are out there. So yeah, you talk back about genealogy, you know, where, you know, where where we came from, if we were from somewhere else, uh if we were in a different time, a different place, a different uh background or if my dad was around, but served time and came out violent, would it affect me? Absolutely.

You know what I If it if a hundred years ago that my great greatgrandfather you know was uh you know locked locked up it would uh affect there's you know there's so many environmental or killed by snakes. So now you have this weird fear from snakes like this stuff you know this stuff is there. So having some awareness of it even even medically prone to cancer or some of these other things that maybe we could you know learn a little bit about you know and these aren't bad things. So, so understanding some of that is is probably a good thing anyway we slice it and and so that and what what jumped out too even with that little comment is this lottery ticket.

So yeah, where were born and you know that folds into the immigration issues and all these other things like I'm sorry you were born in Venezuela in some in some shack, you know, and and you want to come for a better life, of course, you know, and and just kind of like there's a process and and and we you know that we're the richest country in the world and we should be able to afford to help everybody. Um, but yes, the idea of focusing here first makes sense and and where all this money is going. Yes, if we put it in the right places, maybe we can help everybody, but we got to we got to get that going first. Um, so there's that lottery ticket of where you happen to be born in America. That's a good thing, right?

And and you you might be happy to be born in the inner city in Chicago or you might be born in some rural community with it with with faith and community and all these other good attributes. Um, so but in the same token I think that if we if you know when we point our fingers we got three pointing back at ourselves and if we really searching inside if we can find that awareness that I'm not in charge right and that if I trust in this magic that's kind of trying to guide me. Maybe that's the lottery ticket that everybody has potential for. Maybe every everybody has access to that same lottery ticket that will work for their life if you ask me and I know nothing as well other than my experience. Yeah.

But, you know, if we have a little bit more gratitude, if we trust and and and try to make some of these ideas happen or start a business or do these take take some of these risks and all the government stuff and all the insurance stuff, that all makes sense, too, because it's like maybe if you know there was some sort of at least socialized medicine for preventative care or something and I didn't have to worry about hitting a $1,800 a month bill to have insurance for my kids. Maybe that would give me a little bit more leeway to save 6 months of rent and and be able to say delete the plan B and just go with plan A, quit the job and be become a full-time podcaster. Like I dude, you know, it it'd be great and I could do be like Alex Jones and do five hour live streams every day. Like that's that's kind of I I don't know if I that's where I would want to go.

But this I know I enjoy and and and so that's where you you can just do some testing. You don't want to be irresponsible and just quit your job for something silly. But in the same token, sometimes that's that resistance and that's that test. That's almost the the the the test of faith. Do you trust me? you know, and and the people that do that seem to be the ones that is usually the part of somebody that's ultra wealthy or or really successful because they they took that risk. They didn't have that fear hold them back. They didn't have an attitude that somebody owes me something. They worked harder than the next guy. And and that's where you can have equal out. You can have equal opportunity, but you sure is not going to you're not going to have equal effort. So, should there be an equal outcome? Probably not.

But, you know, at the end of the day, that's that complicated issue that but you know um but a lot of that history, a lot of that can be helpful in knowing where we came from in a lot of ways because where that information is coming from, it's it's all in that genetic code somewhere.

and what people want to call genes or what people think they can fix or not fix because god forbid if you have if you can fix it then that's saying something was wrong you know and that's not necessarily true either when it comes to autism or homosexuality or all these other things that we don't understand where things come from but who cares you know as long as people are loving each other and a lot of people do seem to care each other They they care a lot about things that really don't affect them and that's what makes them miserable because they're out there, you know, as some sort of, you know, visual ante for justice uh warrior. Yeah. And and and it's like I don't really think that too many of those people are very happy and content and sometimes work needs to be done, but in the same token, sometimes activism is not a is not helping their own cause.

They sometimes are even creating more trouble for themselves than they even realize because they're not really that educated on the topic or whatever. That's me, man. I'm not uh not an educated person. So, I always try to uh stay out of it because I I hate when I hear someone that's not educated and they're arguing my my pointy and it's like, dude, don't be the spokesman for this, please. And so, like I said, I acquies to the smarter person in the room. Like I recognize when I'm not the best at arguing something, but uh yeah, say I also can't stop myself when someone says, "Hey, what do you think?" It's like, "Well, you know, I should Okay, I'll tell you. Here it is. This is why, right?" And also, I went through the whole thing. You know, I've got a personal experience with like I, you know, we talked about like burning your life to the ground with drugs and alcohol.

That led me to, you know, an overdose, a hospitalization. Um, I didn't have any legal stuff. I never went to jail. Um I uh but I was committed. Uh I was in a hospital for 60 days. Um you know, my mom was told that I was never going to be uh normal. Normal. Yeah. Which I am not. Yeah. What is normal? You know, thank God. Yeah. That's the other thing, right? That that's where we talk. Yeah. Autism, uh sexuality, all this stuff. I think all of it's a a spectrum. you know, there's some guys that are tougher than me and there's some that are more feminine than me and there's some girls that are way tougher than me and, you know, better, you know, athletes than and then there's some that that Right.

Uh there's, you know, I I uh if I thought about making out with a guy, you know, I'm not not really going to not going to be able to, you know, but uh you know, those things are I did I danced at a gay bar for free beers before. Nice. Nice. Nice. That's close. I played I played chicken with guys when I was like uh 15 and then once uh you know where it was like uh try to put on a put try try to make the uh try to gross somebody out and then uh somebody I was in a a truth or dare game and I was uh and somebody had stubble and they dared me to kiss this guy and after that I was like nope absolutely not never get to be able to do that again and I have an visceral reaction as a result of that and uh it's uh yeah you're not going to play chicken anymore more. But um yeah, all those things, man. Nobody's Dude, we're all somewhere, you know? There's I It doesn't matter.

None of that stuff matters. Love more, hate less, and we're probably in a better place regardless, you know. Yeah, absolutely, man. And I I I probably lean more on uh you know with our friends in uh you know in Venezuela. I'll go through this thought exercise of um if I let's let's just you know for for example let's say that they um I believe that they're at threat of gang violence and that their wives and daughters are going to be brutalized right and uh they have no control. If I was in that position I've never been. Thank God, you know, uh and I think uh I very lucky to not have, you know, not only all these good things here, but to have never experienced anything like that. I would do anything, right? Horrible, terrible things. Burn the world to the ground if I needed to. I don't know what that's like, man. I don't know what that's like.

So, I'm not fighting anybody about any stuff like that. All I can say is um you know I've never been in a position where I think like you know uh these these terrible things in the world are out to get me. I've been pretty lucky uh to not have any of those experiences. All of my perspectives on things that are uh like that or social justice oriented or you know political about other people all kind of come from this idea of like there's people in my life that have been really good to me and there's some people that have not. people would have been bullies, you know what I mean? I don't like bullies, man. I don't like that. And my all my people, you know, that I grew up with, I was the kid smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee in Denny's, you know, that was where the love of coffee began. And uh and the outcasts are my people, you know what I mean?

And so I always, man, I'd rather be, you know, I to me it just feels like that's what I'm supposed to do. And and I came from like you talk about like uh feeling like the world owed me. I don't know if it was I feel like I was a victim of the big bad world and everyone in it. Everyone had was harming me so badly. It was so unfair. Thank god I've gotten some tools to not be that person of feeling like I've Yeah. The system the system was screwing me every which way and if it was this or if I would have just done this then that wouldn't have happened and it was all just bad luck and bad coincidences. But on the flip side of that too, it's like we don't have these experience and and even at being an educated idiot.

I mean I okay, yeah, I got a college degree so I can play the power of authority on an argument because I I have a degree and you know or this that and the other or I I can have a bunch of books that I read. So if I read 400 books since I've been to college, does that degree really matter? How many books did you actually read in college? Did you read any of them that you were supposed to? But because you have that piece of paper, all of a sudden now you're some smart individual, you know, and we could read philosophy and we could read the the carts to where like if we don't have enough information, we don't have a god-given right to an opinion. Most of the time, our answer might be, I don't have enough information on this subject to have an opinion. If you're interested in what I think, I can do some more research and get back to you.

And so, but then if we don't have those life experiences, sometimes we're not even qualified to go there. And it's not necessarily a racist thing because I was white for guilty or I was, you know, white privileged or whatever. Undisputed. You know, I if my if the same things would have happened to me that would happen to a person of color, chances are they would have had more consequences than I had. I can admit that un unquestionably. Um, but I can also say like what you said, I I can't put myself in a Venezuelan person's shoes. If I lived on a neighborhood in the south side of Chicago and three children were gunned down in the last month, how can I still live there? I mean, I think that I could just grab a backpack and start walking west and get the hell out of this city, but yes, you don't have resources and you're tied to government government subsidies or whatever other issues.

You don't feel how trapped they are. Even though we always do have that free will. We always do have that choice. But we sure as hell can feel trapped and and and and also Yeah. So that's part of that fear. That's part of that decision-making process, too. That have some faith and just start walking. But unless I'm in that position, I can't judge them for not wanting to leave. Of course, they want to leave. They don't feel they can. Can they or can't they? Maybe because there's food pantries. I'm My kids are never going to starve. You could cancel me all you want for something stupid I say on a podcast. Yeah. And and and and I promise you my kids will not starve. My kids will not be homeless. You know, I I could live in a trailer somewhere or whatever and I'm talented enough in in my life experiences to to throw a few bucks together and and be able to buy food. I can assure you, you know.

So, there's some confidence in that. But but that the one flip side of that argument is that it is about assimilating to this culture that you're moving to and and so this country is one of the greatest countries in the world. It's undisputed. Otherwise, people wouldn't be trying to come here, you know, but for large masses of different cultures that come here to take it over or to make it theirs, it's fair enough to say, can we do something to help them make their country better if that's the way they want to live, you know? So, so even in Chicago, I sometimes talk about that because we did always have that neighborhood structure and some of it segregation or whatever, but part of segregation is having some some pride in your culture and having your own art um museums and your own uh cultural restaurants and food.

And so the best part of Chicago was having all these going to Pilson and seeing the Latino community and going to the southside and getting, you know, different types of restaurants and different types of cultures and different kind of African art and all these other things and going to Korea Town and going to Korea barbecue and that was a beautiful part of Chicago. And to just integrate everybody and mix that all up, I think is losing a lot because it's okay to have pride in that culture of wherever you came from and it could, you know, could be any religion or Muslim or this that and the other. But then just like in some of these ideas of once we start trying to force our will on somebody else, that's where we lost it. like you can live your life and you have you have the right to freedom in this country.

Do what you want, but as soon as we start trying to push our values or our our will on other people is where things get sketchy and you know and that's usually not a good thing. Yeah. My you know coming to Chicago I remember what was your heart out time just to to to say oh gosh yeah dear what are you finding? Where are we at? Uh we're right about five. Oh good. I got a half an hour to wrap things up. Okay. So that's our co that's awesome. Yeah. I just I didn't want you to run over. I shut the phone off just to make sure I wasn't and I was like, "Dude, we could probably talk all day, man. Before you know, I love this too." You know, the reality is uh you can talk to people that are uh you know, have have all the things in in common or find somebody that's complete opposite of you. In real life like this, people are getting along and in that life that's not real, man.

There's like there's terrible things happening on that uh all those endless uh you know, videos that we were flipping through in the comments section. You don't understand that the bots exist. the algorithms are there to keep you pissed off and and and you're arguing with somebody that's probably not even a real person. I'm not even going to say they because I'm a part of this too, man. They got me. I know that there is uh real scary AI out there and it's not Terminators, you know. It's the AI that's at war for our attention and they're winning, you know, and it's not just here with, you know, Meta versus uh Grok versus uh GPT versus G, you know, uh but it's, you know, other countries as well. There's powerful forces at play, man.

And there, you know, the and and then just to take it a step further is, you know, the most powerful force I think is the fact that we've all got, you know, a lifetime of stories that have built our worldview and it's not u going to change. you know, it's uh it's it's hard to to shake that and and and when I care about somebody like my dad, for example, he's got a completely different uh you know, worldview than I do. And uh it's built based on his lifetime of experience and stories and um I don't want him to change at all. You know, I love him exactly the way he is.

I um I think that's uh goes to your point of like you know you can't go and try to change people and do this you know I um I yeah I think I've got my you know convictions and feelings and uh and it goes back you know I'll finish up on the story which you know being um you know kind of hitting my one of my bottoms and you and you always find that the floor is pretty weak when you hit that bottom. There's always a little bit further. You can go another basement underneath there. And I've hit a couple few of them. But yeah, that the one that I hit which uh led me to that hospitalization and then um you know finally after going through Christmas through uh Valentine's Day and uh you know in a mental uh ward of a hospital being uh you know having my my my brain damaged itself uh struggling to get through there. They finally let me out but not not unless I was in the control of others.

So I was put in an adult foster care home. Uh, one of them, you know, for folks with behavioral issues, even though I don't I I I think they had me on enough thorazine at the time that I didn't My only behavioral issue was that I was kind of like this and drooling a lot. Drooling a lot. And uh yeah, that was my behavioral problem. And then, you know, a few months after that, they uh you know, they they let me into a different home where there was a little bit more more freedom. Found a job um cleaning houses and um spent a couple years. was a maid up in Northern Michigan. Um, and uh, at that time they my insurance got cut actually like the state healthc care. It was funny cuz when I was a poor drug addict, I was able to get free health care and free food and then when I got well, they took away the health care. It was super weird. I didn't have any money, but they took that away.

And I uh you know first I mean I'm I'm really glad that I had that social safety net in place that uh I was I didn't leave the hospital with a bill you know and I was in the hospital 60 days you know that was a long ass time right um and then I uh I got out and um this you know the state uh the county up in uh it was upper peninsula of Michigan the Chipoa County got me uh hooked up with a place um I got this this Mishta uh state housing development authority already had some dollars available. I was able to get an apartment. Uh but that was after I exhausted my stay in the homeless shelter up there. So, it's uh you know, it wasn't a fun ride going from you know, hospital to adult foster care home to homeless shelter. Uh that has a six-month cut off where they stop benefiting that too.

and then uh had to work with the uh you know the county and the county mental health to get that housing development uh dollars and then clean some common areas of the department to supplement the rest of the the rent. Um but that you know having that experience I remember that was around the time of like uh um no was around well I got sober in in 2000 uh June 15th 2007 so I think you mentioned 20 plus years and I've got 18 so not too far maybe not too far off how many years you got. Yeah 21 June 26 2004 June. Yep. Yep. And uh it's a good month. It's a good month man. Good time. Yeah. Nice nice weather for getting sober in June. Nice and warm. Uh, and when you're homeless, you know, you don't want to be cold out there. But, uh, no, I I think I going through this this experience and like being really glad looking back now, those social safety nets that kept me from hitting a lower bottom.

Yeah. I've since contributed back so much more to society, the fact that I was able to get well, and I might be that exception where there's it's pretty rare that somebody goes from from there to here, but we see it all the time, right? you know, people that come from uh you know, from such bad uh you know, bad bottoms to uh being able to do do really well. So, so yeah, those are my those are a couple of my big things. There are um well, it's beautiful that the system worked for you. Yes. So, for folks out there, yes, the system can work, but unfortunately, there's a lot of people that don't understand enough. And then there's also the vultures that are out there that are trying to find ways to profit.

And then the incentive structures are not there's always going to be vultures on the on the on the those in in the highest positions making the most money just uh really working hard and the vultures that uh you know can't can't seem to do any better. It seems like it might be a coincidence that though the long-term the the don't usually work out.

So like in my life of running around playing pool doing you know just kind of hustling and workers never hustler and hustlers never work you know that kind of attitude it's like a few 24 hours later here I don't think I know any of them folks from back then that are doing better than me right so you want to cheat the system all you want to think you're going to get ahead that way it seems like there's a million stories I could tell on that even like you know selling wholesale out of your basement and trying to, you know, trying to dodge the IRS and, you know, all these games that people play. And then like I had one friend that was doing that.

He'd be always like, "Hey, don't tell too many people, you know, blah blah blah cuz he's he's selling fish equipment out of his basement wholesale, you know." And then one day he finally gets busted, pays a $30,000 fine or whatever, which he was cheating for 15 years, so he's probably still ahead of the game. But then he had to get a tax ID number. And then he had to get a business license. And then before you know it, now I could walk into any wholesale place because I'm a legitimate business. Now it's like this is a lot easier. Just get a brickandmortar store and just if this is your passion, make it happen and get the crap out of your basement and you can be very successful. So I started the same way. Yeah. Same. Yeah. Same same thing. It's like uh like I said that ready, fire, aim.

you're starting a business and uh you know for us it was like you know number one thing and I think you know this goes back to yeah the the easiest thing is having a great idea you know everybody's got great ideas how many people actually turn it into a bag of coffee that I have roasted with my own hands and then uh yeah there it is look at that yeah we can we can hold it up for the people uh to see but yeah that's that was my goal right was that I had had a lot of great ideas in the past uh I buy a URL.

I you know I I think about this uh what was one one of them was second aid second aid kit right everyone knows what a first aid kit is but we're gonna have a subscription service and it's going to be uh oh my gosh I think I just like the way that that sounded and then I uh I went I went all into that thing man it was ridiculous where did that come from though really who knows it's just uh you're constantly having ideas and then I think this is like part of I mean this is what's fed where does anything come from you know right yeah it's coming from this ether and And we we're just open enough and humble enough to accept sometimes these ideas like even the Flipside Frolic thing or the logo or the way that that design happened with the just the guy on Fiverr and now you got AI. I should almost pull up the the logo for Flipside Frolic cuz I did use Grok. Oh yeah.

And it was like I I I went through Fiverr for the original Flipside Frolic logo. So I do own that. It's trademarked and everything, but but um but I just took that logo and downloaded and said, you know, make this flip site flip out and make a logo similar to this and threw it in Grok. 20 seconds later, I have 200 examples. Yeah. And they're all worth $150 even on Fiverr and probably $500 for any graphic designer to do anything for you or whatever for you to have ownership of.

now whether you have ownership of it and it's all this gray area and law and everything else but I mean it's just that's part of that I guess the a little sidetrack there but the the point being that no it's a good sidrack you accepted you accepted what's given and and and and you feel this calling and then you take action to make it reality so Scott there's the start with why is a phenomenal book but the is it the Simon synynic or the this oh Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good book. And that and I like the uh that influence book is one of my favorites. I love all those examples of like the Kitty Genevese uh situ that it kind of goes through um it's more like a school book. I love um the uh that book. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's you look at my bookshelf and people be like, "Wow, this guy's out there." Because there's there's there's labor stuff.

There's there's and that's where you know originally when I was saying I was getting into blogging when I was off herd because I didn't know if I was going to go back to work and I was looking at internet marketing and email campaigns and and and and and affiliate programs and all that other stuff. So, even the the the other coffee press that you recommended, I was looking to just do an affiliate program with them just so if I'm going to talk them up and throw the link on the website or whatever, if if there was an affiliate or a commissionable link for for whatever was sold through Flipside Frolic, then do that. Why not? And and and um and as it turns out, like I got denied on for some reason. Maybe they look at my website and there's not enough traffic through Google Analytics or something.

So, oh yeah, they want coffee vendors only or they want somebody that they probably only chose me because I have they would probably guess that I have a cafe even though I'm just a roastery, you know. They I think they want somebody that's got store storefront traffic kind of that's normal for wholesale, but Yeah. Yeah. A lot of that stuff. But, uh but most of the wholesale prices aren't even all that much cheaper than true, too. There's not a lot of It's not like 40% like it used to be for that stuff. Yeah. And and they have such strict rules with MSRP. I put everything in and they changed their prices and then they just sent me an email like every hour that I was charging different than their MSRP and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I had to take it all down." Yeah. Now I got to fix it and then put it back.

It's not Yeah, that's a great that's a great conversation on on some of that should be done, some of it's on the uh you know AI stuff though. Uh so this is all handdrawn. We found an artist and um we paid a thousand bucks, man. And we found a real like handdrawing graphic design artist and he gave us a full branding kit and it has like the mast head and the the the uh the header. Yeah. All of the different uh yeah the the detailed the not detailed the fonts the colors which is just black and white but the c there's certain kind of black and white that is our branding black and white right and there's different uh so it's it's really cool.

We invested so much in that which we didn't have a lot of money to start the business but we put a lot into that and it was almost like oh my gosh man we got to grow into this crazy brand we built like we don't even know what the hell we're doing and we got a brand that looks like this timeless amazing you know wonderful coffee that's been around uh man he did a great job I'm not taking credit I'm saying that like we found uh this wonderful artist that uh his name's Chris Mad and I don't know what his uh company he's going by today I'll have to share it without he's a good dude Dude. Um, but yeah. Yeah. And then now today I'll use the AI to make an image, but then I take that, I throw it in Adobe Illustrator. I turn it into a vector. I delete all the, you know, the seventh fingers and the, you know, the, you know, the all those things that that come up that you don't like. Yeah.

To see or the fonts and actually put use a real font. And so I kind of do I take that as a base because I'm not an artist that can draw something. And I just basically turn that into a really basic drawing that I um I make it my own, you know, and that that otherwise, man, I love AI and I abuse it and use it a lot, but I don't want anyone to see that if anyone looks at something I create and do or send or whatever it is and they're like, "That's AI, man. I I would be so I like I don't want that to happen." Yeah. But it's a great tool for like if I got a lot of executive functioning challenges, you know, is what my wife would call it.

She's a special ed teacher now because of our son on the spectrum and her on the spectrum and all the uh you know all those things that you know that that I've been able to learn about uh these types of things and um you know those challenges that I have that I need help with. Man, it's great to have AI help and uh fill in the blanks and keep me organized and do it's coming. It's happening and and and hiding from it is not going to help your success. somebody you you you have to learn how to use it and be the employee that's willing to use it or you're you won't be the last one out the door then at least or whatever. But it's and and there's always been the fear there's robots and the assembly line in Detroit. Yeah.

you know that that's ruining the jobs for everybody really did it you know what I mean there's text there's this there's programmers there's so everything changes and at the end of the day things are seem to be getting better and if we can't have robots or thing do medial jobs that nobody really wants to do anyway and and and and slave into the grind on a job they hate maybe we can open it up for some more people to be creative and follow their dreams or create art or create things to make things. It's like even crazy Ted Nugent, you know, he's out there with this super freedom fighter, but he's got a basic thing where it's like you're either in the asset column or you're in the liability. You know, you're either giving or you're taking. And there's some truth to that that that's part of that same yin-yang. You know, the safety social safety nets are there.

You're an example of it working. It's not designed to live off a lifetime. you know, it's not designed to raise a family on or these sorts of things, but how can we facilitate some suggestions and ideas and experiences to to maybe try to get it to work for other people? And all we could do is we're responsible for the effort, not the results. We we we put our two cents in and and we have our our ideas and our opinions and and hopefully somebody could get something positive out of it. But, you know, to to kind of start wrapping up a little bit more on on the the product and the coffee and passion and we we definitely haven't talked too much about it, but we're, you know, we're not a big sell pitch pitch kind of podcast. We're here to, you know, listen to people's passions and listen to people's um experiences. But we definitely appreciate the the spirit of sponsorship. Yeah.

and and we know that our people are going to enjoy it because I tell you this this was a great cup of coffee right there what we did. Yeah, it's I'm excited about this one. Uh we do something special like this every month. We've got like a monthly uh you know uh coffee of the month club type of thing subscription that people could sign up for and if they're interested in something that's really unique and unusual, rare, remarkable, you know, they can sign up and get something like this. We've gone through like a a Tanzania geisha. If you ever heard of like um you know the cup of excellence, there was a award given to a coffee out of Hacienda La Esmeralda in Panama. $1,000 a pound, $100 for a cup of coffee. It is uh super, you know, fruit forward, very floral, like exciting coffee, man.

I mean, this is the kind of stuff that like you I I passionate tell I would passionately talk talk about it with with folks that don't even like coffee very much because it's like you don't really know. This is amazing, right? And uh the one that we had was from it was the same uh varietal but it was from uh Tanzania. So it was even more fruit forward and like uh Yeah. pretty. And that was the one at the tasting, right? Oh yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you for coming to that. By the way, I wanted to say like I think that's awesome that uh you know, you knew we were at an event and you just showed up and and hung out and spent time with us uh out of your you know, which is not convenient to go and do something like that. And uh Well, it's I appreciate that you did that. It was cool and I I enjoyed I always enjoy talking to you and hanging out with you.

Well, I mean that that comes and it's not about me and I'm not self, you know, but but it kind of goes back to learn being an example of learning the piano for my kids and if we're here to help each other, we're here to support each other. We're going to sponsor each other. We're going to be on each other's podcasts and and and so you see that the giving people are willing, let's I'll be on your podcast, you be on my podcast. We'll help promote each other. it this this this this this world of scarcity is and and and screw your neighbor just isn't successful for anybody.

we all can just build each other up and it's just such a better model and and and and so even in some recent circumstances I was kind of in a thing where it was like you know oh the left needs their Joe Rogan or the left needs their podcasters and and and all these people out there and it was like here I'm a pro-union guy I'm born in Chicago I've been blue my whole life I'm definitely more moderate and closer to libertarian like most normal people it seems that I didn't move where my values and positions are. It seems that the rest of the group kind of went a little further. Yeah. And I and I'm not the only one like that. And so, you would think if you wanted a podcaster in in this field to help the left carry a message of some sort, then wouldn't you support that?

And and yet here was a few there was a few opportunities where everybody's all standoffish because they're afraid to come out and speak their mind and speak truth and and and be worried about being cancelled because you said something. It's like, well, then you're never going to get there. You know, you're never going to you're never going to have that that person that can speak, you know, those ideas or whatever. But there's also an effective way to talk to somebody about something because uh you know, some folks are so um you know, they they can be, you know, very full of opinion and so uh so much vitriol or passion, you know, whatever you want to call it, right? whether it's sick, every word is uh, you know, spiked with venom or that it's just very passionate. Look at it whatever way you want, you know, but is it really gonna help?

But sometimes just one guy talking to another about like, hey, you know what? There's uh there's there's nothing better than us just taking care of each other. Um, looking out for those, you know, that uh, you know, that that that need it. Um, you know, being uh being there for for for those that um, you know, that need it. And and I think those types of things are what God wants for me, right? But you know, like and and that's that's what I'm supposed to be doing. Um I I don't know what what God is, you know, nothing that uh I'm not a I know there's a lot that goes a lot of weight that goes along with that that word and um but yeah, that's that's uh that's what I feel is um is what I'm supposed to be doing and I feel good about that. But uh yeah, this is awesome.

I love talking to you and and and being on the the podcast and uh yeah, so anybody local, we were in Lombard at the co-op, which is another amazing little thing that they're doing out there by by trying to pull more fresh local grocery. That's what it says right out front. That's what they're all about. They've been trying to get this thing started for like a decade and they're um you know, they've finally got it up and built and uh we're in there. We're actually the coffee that they serve everyone for free in the morning. And um you know, we made a little coffee station there. A lot of local vendors like um you know, another soap vendor from Lombard Soapy Roads. Um trying to get my friend uh Raven Beard Co in there. I try to introduce you to Gokan because you got the beard, man. Yeah, we were talking about that. I never got the contact information.

Well, we're going to we're going to get him out here on the podcast. Also a photographer who I met uh just like your wife. He led the Chicago Photographic Society and brought me out on so many uh trips to Chicago to go and do street photography, go and do uh architecture photography. Uh so again, always looking for ways to be a part of the community. You'd love him too. So yeah, there's we got a whole lot we can get uh Yeah, we might we might bring the co-op uh starters out here, too. We were talking to them a little bit about coming out on the podcast and telling their story because that's an another amazing journey. Um, so we'll we'll throw a link in the description for for for that. So, um, you can go and get Spiritus Coffee there. Um, you can also we're going to put uh the website. Any other social medias or any of that kind of stuff you want to bring up? Yeah. Yeah.

The I uh Yeah, if anybody's interested in liking us on the uh the Instagram, we try to do Spiritus Coffee Co. is our uh handle on everything. And then like the uh you know, the elevator pitch for for us, which I can't keep anything to an elevator pitch. pretty long-winded, but I'll say that um you know, everything we do is super fresh. I roast every Monday and I try to get, you know, the coffee delivered within two to three days. So, it's as fresh as it gets. It you know, we primarily, you know, we had all these lofty goals of giving back in mental health and substance abuse recovery because it's our history. Um, you know, I think telling our story around our recovery could be the best thing that we use it by saying, "Hey, you know, we, you know, dope the hope guys, you know, and it's like just felt so wrong. It never really materialized.

We do give money and, you know, time to these organizations. It's not really the the business has taken on a life of its own based on the customers that found us and love us, which is like local. They want uh they love that we're doing freehand delivery and dropping things off at people's store. They love that it's super fresh. They love that it's all 85 cupping score high in higher coffee. So, it's all, you know, the best the best stuff that we're finding and that's um that's what we're all about, man. So, um you know, with that um yeah, well, actually discounted all that stuff for you guys. We might have a we we got a pretty good discount package going. um whether you do the monthly subscription or a onetime purchase, try a few different things. Find the one you like and then order the five pound bag because you know obviously that's the most economical way to do it.

Um but one thing that just broke broke my train of thought a little bit because we talked about a local artist that was hired to do this beautiful design and logo for you. We talked about a local co-op grocery store that's carrying Spiritus coffee for for us and and and in a partnership with them. Um, but we cannot leave. which when you you talk about a powerful story, whether it was recovery, whether it was this, whether they're that, one of the things that really jumped out to me the most at that sampling and and and folks, he's we'll keep you posted on any upcoming taste samplings because just me personally after my head trauma and my work accident that you guys might know most there'll be another video explain uh telling more of my story with that cuz it is crazy. But we had that in common, too.

So I was, you know, we were both in these situations in the hospital where our families were fried told like they're never going to be who you think they are. You know what I mean? Coming back from something like that. So from breaking my skull in four places and breaking both my cheekbones and squishing my head about an inch and a half sideways under 12,000 lbs. Um, not something I recommend, but I wouldn't trade it for the world because that gave me the opportunity to be home with my kids and being off with several surgeries and and all this kind of stuff. My kids for three years had two stay-at-home parents. Y which made them weird. Yeah. Because no other kids really had that. So the attention that they received and everything else. So but they're not weird of course. Um but you know that that was just a different thing. So my kids are weird. Yeah. It's weird. It's good to be weird.

The parents are weird. Did you ever That's what one of my spiritual not as weird as that was one of his stories. He always said like he's bitching about his crazy kid or whatever. He's like, "Did you ever did you ever take any consideration of who raised him?" Right. Yeah. Exactly. What did you expect? Come on. So So anyway, with the co-ops and with everything else going on, you we can't leave without you telling me a little bit about how does this how does this coffee get packaged? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's uh that's become one of the coolest things about the the company. Uh we got a phone call. I got a voicemail. a guy named Ralph called up and said um you know, hey, we've got uh you know, a school. We're interested in uh partnering with some vendors. Could you give us a call? I um I was busy. I I told Jason, I'm like, I don't know what this is about.

Somebody, you know, I thought a lot of times somebody will want a raffle gift or something. And it's like, you're school, you probably want a gift or a free coffee. Yep. Do that. No problem. See what they need. Let's get it for them. And uh turns out, you know, they're opening up this amazing transition program. uh they've got uh students uh with a ton of abilities, right? So, um but probably not enough to where they could get a a regular job. Um it is a therapeutic day school. Um these are uh you know students with uh some challenges and uh and a ton of abilities and they are looking for partners in the community that can help them as uh they're 18 to 22 years old. they've graduated and they're looking for jobs, internships, these kinds of things. Um, some are suited for it and some are not.

And they're um they're all working with us at at Spiritus Coffee to learn everything they can about coffee to get uh those transition program skills, just life skills, you know, how to learn um you know, the basics of um you know, they're our employees basically, right? and they're doing everything from uh when I get done roasting on Monday, I bring in the coffee. Uh they work with their teachers, you know, to go through and uh find all the orders that are out there. Uh look them up, uh lay out the bags, put these labels on, you know, put the the the dates on the bags and um fill the bags, weigh them, seal them up, and then um they're there for us to pick up and hand deliver. uh one of my uh employees that'll go and hand deliver or myself also uh put them in packages and send them to the post office. Um and you know, we've got a couple that are official interns.

We've got a path for them to becoming our next employees when we have when we grow and have employees. They'll be hit. You know, they're on the bench to take those jobs and they're doing a terrific job. And so, you know, hearing that for I've got a son that's on on the autism spectrum. Um, and you know, going through different, you know, IEP meetings and and learning about those challenges and worrying when he was younger. Now, yeah, he's he's already at 15 more successful than I am. So, you know, his autism has not uh stopped him from surpassing me already, luckily. But I think I I had a lot of worries and concerns, you know, about uh what this is going to mean when we were getting those early childhood meetings about the challenges that he was having.

And uh you know, these kids when they're out of there and they're 23, you know, I don't want them to be in their mom's basement watching YouTube videos and playing video games and you know, wondering what they're going to do with life. They could be my next employee, you know, a barista. Uh so like I said, you know, I have all these lofty goals want to create a brand around being in the moment. Slow down, enjoy a mindful ritual with your coffee. You know, have uh coffee that's worth having a quiet time with. It might be the only 10 minutes during the day that you take that you're not off to the races on your technology. Flip coffee on its head. Instead of like checking off your to-do list, get more [censored] done, get caffeinated, let's go. Like instead of that, slow down, enjoy, right? I want to do this.

I want to give back to these things I care about like mental health uh that I have a lot of experience with personally uh substance abuse recovery right and the reality is what ended up happening what was what did the universe present to me this time it's here's a school here are students that have a need here's um a perfectly mutually beneficial gift I get so much out of the relationship um you know that uh that I now pay you know you know monthly to make sure that uh it's not just a you know that I am have funds going back into the school and uh then the kids get paid and you know and pizza parties and gift cards and everything else that they enjoy in addition but like it's uh but it's also giving back to them you know they're learning things they're learning how to have a job when when this is set and done for them and they're they're 22 and they go on to the next stage so um I didn't ask for it they just asked me and I just keep saying yes because it's the right thing to do and it just keeps growing and growing and man I'm I'm loving everything about it.

So it's happening to me, you know, can't take responsibility for the good or Yeah, the bad I can easily take responsibility for to be honest with you. I have a really good really easy ability. We take ownership pretty well, but this Yeah, I take ownership well the good stuff, you know, I'm just grateful and this is definitely the the good stuff. So um yeah.

Yeah, I think yeah, you know, I I just u again life beyond my wildest dreams and it all keeps happening uh for me and um in ways that I I wouldn't have been able to write that story if given all the time in the world of um you know what's got me from that guy out of the you know mental hospital to this guy unrecognizable and uh so yeah if if there's anything you know about me it's that it all is uh complete gratitude teachable and uh and trying trying to learn to do uh do a little bit better because I've um been given a great great gift in so many areas. So, well, I don't I don't know how else to end. That sounds uh amazing.

It's a it's it's give give and and god forbid you know something happens and you just got lucky you know like when things take off and you see this vision of the future and then um there's there's so many stories and if listen to Andy Nathan's story and some of my past guests that would talk about startup gap and the differences between when things happen and people keep pers persevering and keep continuing on and then then it breaks through and then people you know the haters are like oh you just got lucky it's like Sometimes we create our own luck and but Spirit is Coffee um wonderful organization local. Um check it out. You're going to like it. And uh we're going to we're going to end with that. Check the websites, check the video descriptions.

We'll get some links for you and put Flip Side in the description of the coupon code and you will get yourself a little discount from Spiritus Coffee. Thanks everybody. We'll catch you later. Cool. Thanks man. Thanks for joining us at Flipside Frolic. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and maybe learned a little something about other people's perspectives. Don't forget to subscribe, share, and throw us a like on the video. Comment if you have any questions, and we'll see you on the next episode.